New Home Forums Course Creation Resources 43 LMS SYSTEMS REVIEWED (& what we learned)

61 replies, 14 voices Last updated by  Bradley Morris 6 years, 5 months ago
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  • #73151

    MoveThinkSmile (Adam & Elea)
    Adventurer
    @MoveThinkSmile

    In our quest for the ultimate learning experience, we went hunting for the “perfect” LMS system. One that does it all. One that offers the student the best chance for success. For truly learning and changing their lives. Once that offers:

    • True Social Learning & Engagment
    • Epic Gamification
    • Easy Course Creation
    • Puts the student first.
    • All in one place

     

    It’s been a long couple months.

    And, we’ve learned there’s hundreds of options.

    NOTE: We stopped at 43…so this is NOT an exhaustive study. And if we missed something awesome, please reply!

    Here’s a summary of what we’ve learned based on the LMS systems we reviewed & our top 3 LMS options.

    LMS State of the Industry

    1. The majority of LMS systems are built for the teacher (AKA admin) and NOT for the student. This makes sense as the people paying for these systems are typically the instructors. While this makes for really good admin and easy course creation, this leaves very little focus on getting results for the student. Very surprising here.
    2.  

    3. Most of the LMS systems we came across are developed for employee training. This was a surprise. I had expected the majority to be developed for academic institutions. While these enterprise type systems can work for creating paid courses, there are much better options.
    4.  

    5. Gamification is a new concept to many LMS systems. If an LMS even offers gamification, it is usually very simple (i.e. get  points for a completed lesson along with a “badge”).  There are some exceptions, one is completely badass but ridiculously expensive. Another is in our top list.
    6.  

    7. Social Learning is even a newer concept to the LMS industry. We were blown back by how many VERY expensive LMS systems consider sharing your badge on facebook social learning. Most LMS systems keep students isolated from each other. yes, they MIGHT have a discussion board or two. But actually being able to connect, contact and engage with students outside of a live group session is rare. Very rare.
    8.  

      


    LUDICROUS LMS :
     Before we get into the our top 3 choices, I must give a shout out to Growth Engineering’s Academy LMS (this is the YouTube demo)  Based in the UK, they  have created an absolutely epic, gamified (like with real games) totally engaging badass LMS system. We went in deep and did the whole live demo thing.  It is crazy. It is ludicrous. It is $36,000 US / year. If price is no object, stop  now…and sign up.
     
     
    TOP 3
    Based on our criteria of having a very engaging LMS, the ultimate student experience attempting to have it all in one place, with a great themed and gamified experience…
     
    the LMS with the most is…
    ***sigh*** WordPress Social Learner (which uses LearnDash, it’s the system you’re using right now on GEA). We really didn’t want this to be true. While I have extensive tech experience and development background, it’s not what I want to do. But the fact is, if you want the ultimate learning experience, you want to keep it all in one place. If your want the most flexible theming…if you want to most gamification options…Social Learner is, by what we’ve seen to date, the only LMS that offers it all.

    Yes. This sucks because it’s clunky.

    Yes. This means you have to tech your way into the world. And if it breaks, you have to fix it.

    Yes, if you want to create a single place, with one log in, one website, for the ultimate student experience…it’s gonna take work.

    So the question is, is Social Learner (with LearnDash) worth the work?  Maybe…
     
     
    Cloud based LMS coming close, really close: MatrixLMS.com
    Based out of San Francisco, this is the ONLY LMS in our review that offers all the true social features, course learning, and gamification….with a few caveats.

    1.  Gamification is simple but rather good. It’s just points and badges, but you can specify lots of ways students can get them.
    2.  

    3. I wouldn’t say navigation is complex, but it is different. Takes a minute to figure stuff out.
    4.  

    5. Pricing starts at about $8.45/month/learner minimum 2o students. On a monthly subscription this is $169 / month. Not cheap by any means… But honestly, for all that you get, it may be worth it. Price drops rapidly as you scale (i.e. 100 active students is $3.50 / month on a monthly plan). Annual subscriptions are cheaper.
    6.  

    7. Price is based on active students. This does NOT include your admins and teachers, which is a super nice feature. A student must log in and actually visit a course to be counted as active. This means a student can log in , check messages, and not be counted.

     
    The social engagement is cool. There are news feeds (think facebook wall), forums, and personal blogs, which could be used as journals. These are great features. Like any LMS, you’ll just need to learn how to use them for your course.

    You can custom style the entire thing..even your own terminology (i.e. Change Courses the Checkpoints). And, there are an insane amount of features, most of us would probably just turn off.

    If you do the free demo trial, and I highly suggest that you do, don’t get too overwhelmed with the admin. There’s a LOT going on. Set up a fake student user and log in. Things will dummy down fast. Also, the terminology they use is, to me, awkward. There’s a small learning curve, but once you see the possibility, you’ll be like…oh…I get it now. Wow.

    Overall, if you’re tired of WordPress Social Learner / Learndash integrations…this is the closest all in one solution we’ve seen to date.
     
     
    Best Combo
    Our 3rd choice is using a combo. Much like many do by having a facebook group along with their LMS. Here, the best combo we’ve found is Mighty Networks (business plan) along with TalentLMS.

    Why Mighty Networks? Affordable smooth working social group that is NOT facebook. @bradleytmorris has spoken lots about it, and the course system they are working on. IF, and this is IF they actually role out their LMS system with all the features and good time frame, then this option does a really good job, as it allows you to role your course curriculum over to MN without losing any of your social engagement history.

    Why TalentLMS? This thing is the bomb. For only $39 / month for 25 users on the monthly plan, you get:

    • An LMS that works. Really well. It offers the best mix of actual course work, files…etc.
    • Gets the most reviews and highest ratings of anything we came across.
    • The support team is on it (I made 22 support requests and received a response in 6 hours or less every time).
    • It is silly fast. Almost ridiculous.
    • Instructor Led Training with integrated conferencing at no extra charge using the open source Big Blue Button project (not as robust as Zoom or GoToTraining, but it works).
    • Simple, yet super flexible, if you want.
    • Custom styling. It is simple enough for non-techs to get in  create something, and if you want to make it “yours,” awesome styling flexibility (not as simple to style as MatrixLMS, but very doable).
    • REALLY GOOD GAMIFICATION with a very robust points system, custom badges, limited rewards.  This is THE BEST gamification we encountered in our review, with exception to the ludicrous option above.
    • It does have a discussion board, but we would disable this and use Mighty Networks instead.
    • It does have messaging, but again would disable.
    • It offers very flexible pricing plans. You do per user plan ($1.29 per user for 100 users), or per active student in a 30 day period ( $2.39 per active user for 100 students).

    There are some downsides, like a different navigation structure than most LMS systems, and fully customizing the theme to it’s full capability could take some tech knowledge.

    How to make them work togehther? Both MN and TalentLMS let you add a custom navigation link to your header and menu (MN actually lets you use and image). Our course is based on “BadAss Island.” You hang out in the comfort zone (mighty networks) and go out in the obstacle zone (TalenLMS) when you’re ready to learn.

    So, at the top of our Mighty Networks page, we have the Badass Island Icon and link. On our TalentLms site we have a link back to “the comfort zone.”

    We think this could work really well. Especially for less than $100 / month (till our LMS users grew).

    BUT, there is a big con: Two systems. When in Mighty Networks, you won’t see your points, achievements, course progress, etc. You’ll have to “travel to badass island” to get that stuff. When in TalentLMS, you won’t see any notifications for messages, discussions etc. This could cause unneeded complication and confuse things for students.

    However, IF, that is if MN actually does what they say they’re going to do with courses….this might work till that stuff is all ready.
     
     
    We’ve narrowed it down to these 3 options. We want the system that will help us create the best user experience, get results and are…well…still a bit perplexed. :

    1. We love what WordPress Social Learner & LearnDash offers in terms of it all in one place with super custom theming (you can do ANYTHING with this system)….but it does feel a little outdated (especially in the Social engagement styling…forums and stuff) & takes the most work to build and maintain. Actually, a lot of work.
    2.  

    3. MatrixLMS is super nice. A newer system with “most” that we could ask for. Owned by a company with a solid international track record. Price per student drops rapidly as you scale, but is still the highest compared to the other 2 options. Gamification is decent (not as robust as WordPress plugin GamiPress). Social is totally there with friends, walls, news feeds, forums and blogs. Design is not as simple as mighty networks, but it is good.
    4.  

    5. Mighty Networks with TalentLMS – a really good two option choice. Super clean interface. You get the best of social along with a very strong, very well priced LMS. With MN supposedly adding a robust course system, this could be the best option for future proofing as you could roll all your course content over without losing any social stuff. Problem is you now have 2 sites your students must use….but is that really a big deal?

     
    So, if you took the time to read this. Thank you. Our question is: Which of these 3 would you choose and why?  Or, if you have an option you like better, what is it?

    Thank you,

    Adam (& Elea)

     

    #73153

    xbobby
    Adventurer
    @xbobby

    Hi @movethinksmile

    Thanks for a fantastic intro and research
    I will say maybe (MatrixLMS.com)
    The reason is that I feel that it is the most professional with most possibilities, but how did it work on different devices like smartphones and so on?
    Social Learner had not followed the time if you ask me. (number 3)
    Mighty Networks (Number 2) can be Mighty, but it feels as, they should have some years to do that.
    What about Learn Dash, what number have it?

    Bo

    #73170

    Mars
    Adventurer
    @Mars

    Wow thank you. I need to read this again and decide. Such a shame that the UK one is so exorbitant.

    #73173

    MoveThinkSmile (Adam & Elea)
    Adventurer
    @MoveThinkSmile

    @xbobby

    1) Matrix LMS is fully mobile compliant. It looks and works very well. I also realized it offers things Social Learner does not, personal blogs and journals along with a news feed (wall) and forums.

    2)LearnDash is actually part of the Social Learner package, which is used here, on the Great eCourse Adventure. So it is part of the first option.

    #73175

    xbobby
    Adventurer
    @xbobby

    @movethinksmile Thanks for your answers

    Could you give us a list of links to the teen best LMS you have found, so that we can look at them? I always love to look at the new LMS systems.

    Thanks for your great work. 🙂

    #73249

    MoveThinkSmile (Adam & Elea)
    Adventurer
    @MoveThinkSmile

    @xbobby

    In regards to my top 10 best LMS list…

    Honestly, out of the 43 we evaluated, nothing else even comes close to meeting our criteria. That’s why we have the top 4 list above.

    There is one I just learned about yesterday, that is incredible. It is related to MatrixLMS.com In fact, it’s the same system, with less features IndieLMS.com

    And, it is only $129/ month for 1,0000 active users on a monthly plan. This is incredible pricing!

    And, while the features are much less than the Matrix option, I think for many people it would work really well. The main difference is Indie is really for simple, self-paced classes, and Matrix is really more for deeper instructor led learning.

    But for the price, wow! In the social area, I like it much more than Social Learner (LearnDash). In the instruction area, the student assessments are limited (i.e. basic quizes).

    Matrix offers cool features not found in Social Learner or Indie: robust course templates, more student assessment options, chat rooms for each class (you can still have chat rooms in groups), individual student blogs, calendars, and web conference integration (it only lets you schedule the web conference using a something like WebEx).

    We now have 2 trial accounts so we can fully compare Matrix vs. Indie vs. Social Learner.

    #73251

    xbobby
    Adventurer
    @xbobby

    @movethinksmile Thanks for your feedback.

    That is interesting with the new IndieLMS.com with fewer features to a price 129$ per month for 1000 active learners instead of MatrixLMS.com to a price 149$ pr. Month for only 20 learners.

    Hope we hear more about your process the two LMS you will test.:

    The BIG question is: Would LMS IndieLMS.com work fine with the less feature?
    I must say I love the price 🙂

    #73309

    Bradley Morris
    Mountain Guide
    @bradleytmorris

    What an amazing evaluation you guys have done @MoveThinkSmile. Big thank yous for taking the time to dig in and make this report. WOW! Lots to digest. 

    From an experience design perspective, I am not 100% convinced that currency/points is necessary for epic learning.

    I would say more important than anything is awesome media and the storyworld (theme) people give their course. It is the theme and challenges that make the badges excited to earn (in my opinion).

    From a eCourse Adventurer perspective, for all of you reading this, how many of you are motivated by the BAJILLION (honestly)?

    Curious what has motivated YOU ALL to stick with this journey? Which parts of this experience are what keep you going?

    Is it the fun videos? Is it the monthly challenges? Is it the community? Is it bajillion? Is it earning that next backpack supply? Is it the leaderboard? Id love to know. I have my theories based on what I’ve seen and witnessed, but I’m curious.

    #73323

    MoveThinkSmile (Adam & Elea)
    Adventurer
    @MoveThinkSmile

    @bradleytmorris

    Now, before we answer your questions, we need your super experience with our LMS perplex…which of the 3 options would you choose?

    Or do you know of something even better?

    NOTE:  Matrix, option 2, has a little brother which does everything and more that you now have in GEA for only $129 / month for 1,000 ACTIVE users (…that’s anyone who signs in a 30 day period…not total users).  It’s called IndieLMS.com.     It’s much less robust than Matrix, but it is so good, we are thinking about Indie instead of Matrix for a simpler experience, along with epic cost structure.

    As for GEA…

    Personally, we love the Bajillion. It was really motivating when we first started. Super fun. Especially since you have a rewards system we can actually use them with. Probably never will, but currency / points is really a great instant progress checker. If the savings account is not growing…then neither are we 🙂

    What motivated us, well, the story. The theme of getting a trail pass and going up the mountain. Love it so much we are modeling BadAss Island and the course in obstacles after it.

    Videos are very entertaining, much more than the talking head thing. This is part of your theme and well worth it.

    I like the monthly challenges, though we have only participated in a couple.

    For sure the community. Feedback we’ve received is epic. This, along with the adventure / expedition theme are the 2 strongest areas for us.

    The backpack supplies…totally forget about these, so not sure if they really added to the experience.

    Leaderboards are cool, especially when it comes to the monthly challenges.

    Mostly…you and Andy. You have been responsive. You connect with us. You’re there when we need it. The course could be a pile of word docs, but it is the coach who really makes it happen. You’ve got skills…and the Adventure takes it all to a whole new level.

    My only critique, and I know these are limitations to Social Learner out of the box…is that it gets kind of confusing where things are. It feels clunky. But you know that. I think keeping forums with checkpoints would be good. then creating groups on specific topics that members can join and discuss.

    #73333

    Jennypim
    Adventurer
    @Jennypim

    @movethinksmile you’ve done so much research!

    I love this course which is why I started building my Social Learner + Learndash site in January.

    I already had my courses on Learndash.

    I also have Ontraport and it goes really well with Social Learner and Learndash. Ontraport connects to stripe and the courses need to be set to Open in learndash for it all to work.

    I agree the Forum is clunky, I was looking at one today called Muut.com and wondering could I fit it in with Social Learner. It’s v hard to change your mind about a Forum later on.

    I love the emails I get about Forum updates with Social Learner. I wish they could update the bbpress bit somehow, it has so many users 300,000! I think the Forum actually in the course is so much better than a Facebook group.

    In one way, the fact the Forum is clunky makes it somehow more honest, less flippant because you have to make an effort to make topics and replies and can’t do it so quick.

    I’ve written to Learndash and Buddyboss about the possibility of a Journal or diary, that could be either private or public or both, they said there wasn’t this facility, but when I googled I saw that this journal could be like the progress log we make here, that can also be made private.

    I thought a lot about people on my course having a private practice journal, but then they’d know I could read it, so it wouldn’t be private. (I couldn’t say ‘now don’t forget to fill in your private practice journal and don’t worry I won’t read it!’)

    So copying the GEA shamelessly, I’m having a weekly challenge, where people will be given different elements to put into their Equestrian Tai Chi practice and make a progress log about it.

    I’ve already written and told them about this weekly challenge and people have written back to say they’re looking forward to participating in the activities and the weekly practice. I’ll be doing it too and I’m looking forward to it too.

    I think the yearly pricing for Social Learner is excellent $150 or something and they give great support as do Learndash so I am a fan.

    Thank you again for your diligent research @movethinksmile

     

    #73383

    Kyle Newton (Tribus)
    Adventurer
    @Tribus

    @movethinksmile

    Great research.   Thanks so much for the work and the post!

    #73385

    Kyle Newton (Tribus)
    Adventurer
    @Tribus

    @bradleytmorris

    I have to say I really enjoy all your game mechanics.

    Is it the fun videos?

    If you didn’t have these I wouldn’t have gotten hooked ;-).  They drew me in initially and have kept me going.

    Is it the monthly challenges?

    Too new to the community to say.  But I’m sure they are cool!

    Is it the community?

    Long-term it is always the community and it looks like you have a great one.

    Is it bajillion?

    I really like your use of it.   I like the Store and the things you have offered for redemption.   I keep watching my account … It is a cool incentive to put personal coaching as a great carrot.

    Is it earning that next backpack supply?

    I haven’t really encountered that yet.

    Is it the leaderboard?

    I didn’t see that – where do I get to that?

    Id love to know. I have my theories based on what I’ve seen and witnessed, but I’m curious.

    Themeification (sp?) is really what got my attention.   The concept of making it fun and wrapping a theme around this is great.  I’m less than 24 hours from first hearing about you guys and I already have a ton of notes and and some mind mapping done for one of our larger projects.

    I think the theme and fun videos are the thread that carries the ebb and flow of the other dynamics.

    Well done guys!

    #73390

    Bradley Morris
    Mountain Guide
    @bradleytmorris

    I just spent a half hour or so cruising through IndieLMS. That looks really solid. Have you peaked under the hood and played around with it at all @MoveThinkSmile?

    I appreciate yours’ and @Tribus feedback on WHAT draws you to stick around with the GEA. I had a feeling it was the theme more than anything. I really feel like the currency is COOL and has a cool factor to it, but it honestly wears off. What does not wear off is a good theme. If you can do your theme well, it honestly doesn’t matter too too much which platform you’re on. 

    But out of your list, I am still pretty darn confident (based on my conversations and theri road map) that Mighty Networks will be the way to go. Their forum is awesome once you get used to it. The fact that they’ll have a gamified eCourse builder as well is cool. The fact that you can have paid members, free memberships, paid courses, free courses, paid groups, free groups, etc… is awesome. There is so much potential. I love that you can draw peopel in for the community OR for the courses. Super cool. They are also doing a really cool student tracking analytics feature that gamifies the course creator experience.

    For us, Mighty NEtworks feels like a match for my long-term vision:

    • Low tech
    • Can build a market place of many courses easily
    • Can have free + paid
    • They have a vision of having crypto OR points down the road
    • Has enough creative elements to make cool courses
    • We can focus heavily on experience design + making amazing media. (the media is where it’s at)

    The only bummer is, they won’t be launching version one of the course builder until May.

    We are planning on launching Green Screen Magic on Mighty Networks platform, as well as breaking our Masterclass into mini courses. That will be my way to really test it out on a smaller audience before moving the entire GEA over to it when they make it gamifyable.

    On that note, as a part of our marketing strategy, I am likely going to upload the course to at least a half-dozen other course building platforms as well as a way to bridge partnerships to some of the other LMS companies out there. By having a wicked course on producing amazing green screen media lessons on THEIR PLATFORM BUILDER, those course platforms will likely be more inclined to promote the course. Plus in doing it this way, I’ll be able to offer you a lot more honest feedback on what I think is great and what isn’t.

    The thing is, the industry is shifting rapidly. There is always going to be better and better tech.

    Design your student learning experience and think of what is MOST important.

    After having the GEA for two years, currency is cool, but not necessary.

    Badges, though you say you’re not excited by them, I think are great for gamifying the course and bringing folks into your world by rewarding them. Badges also show the people who have completed specific challenges, tasks OR courses if you’re growing an entire network.

    For us, we believe the three most important parts of effective eLearning are:

    1. CURRICULUM: You’ve gotta have a tight curriculum. Your lessons need to be good and help people get results.
    2. EXPERIENCE: This is the gamification and themeification piece. Your course needs to be a world. You need to draw people in, make it interesting, keep them excited to continue on with you. The need to become a character on their own personal hero’s journey.
    3. COMMUNITY: Having peers and access to the coach in charge is key. Even if I only check in a few times per week and don’t necessarily get around to reading everything, having my presence here and participating in epic conversations like this makes it all worth while. I agree, our forum is clunky. I’m pretty over it, but I don’t wanna switch to Mighty Networks until it’s FULLY integrated with the course.

    We thought about using something like muut early on, but it really messes with the student login + gamification piece. Not having it be an integrated experience can get messy and confusing. Confusing means people quit.

    I don’t know enough about IndieLMS, but from what I’ve seen it looks easy to build on and it has a lot of great features. I would say it is definitely a really promising prospect and would be well worth exploring. I will consider it being one of the platforms I build Green Screen Magic on.

    Hope this is helpful.

    I so appreciate all the work you went through in testing, researching and documenting all these platforms. It certainly isn’t my passion to do, so I am grateful for what you’ve done here.

    #73432

    MoveThinkSmile (Adam & Elea)
    Adventurer
    @MoveThinkSmile

    @bradleytmorris

    1) Thanks for the awesome feedback!

    2) Let me rephrase…yes, we do love the badges! I just forgot you equated them to filling your backpack.

    3) I used the points to track my progress more so than badges. Much faster to see my total success…it’s kind of like a badge summary.

    4) While I do agree that theming, coaches and community are the crux of great experience…having a BadAss technology system takes a great program to insanely fantastic. To us, having a system that looks great, is easy to use, and takes you into a “virtual land” of adventure is important.

    5) Mighty Networks has yet to publish a deadline for their advanced course features like gamification. Being a dveloper, this usually indicates it will likely be 6-12 months before we see a fully functional system we can really use.

    6) As you said about mighty networks: “Their forum is awesome once you get used to it.” I agree, and it causes a few concerns.

    Now, on to Indie LMS (Matrix LMS lil’ brother)
    We have spent about 15 hours with them so far. Figuring out the system and such. Here’s our thoughts:

    • Support is super responsive. I have used their support forum a dozen or so times and have gotten a response in less than 2 hours every time.
    • The admin is solid, but feels outdated. To us it is clunky like much of wordpress. The technology feels about 10 years old. It’s not, but the way they’ve structured things does not have the super slick modern visual click and drag interface we are seeing in a lot of other areas. BUT, the features for the students are awesome.
    • Some of the features are very limiting. For example:
      • the calendar does NOT have a built in reminder / alert system for upcoming events. You have to manually link the iCal to your external calendar of choice (i.e. google).
      • You can not order things in the right column.
    • Some of the features are very flexible, but take a super tech to make them do great things. For example, you can totally style and transform the front end student UI to make something really cool. BUT, you have to create an external style sheet, then upload it. This is clunky.
    • The groups are awesome! In each group you can have:
      • Chat room
      • Activity / News Wall like facebook. It’s a bit sterile out of the box, but you can style it.
      • Forum
      • Connection to members
      • Calendar (Matrix version only).
    • The messaging system is really awesome. You can send private messages or chat with others online.
    • Alerts system is crazy.
    • Speed is awesome.
    • Courses are awesome and include their own forums. In the Matrix version, you also get personal blogs, wiki, chats and activity walls.
    • The gamification system is better than I originally thought. No rewards system, but points, badges and ranks are there. You can add points for things anytime.
    • Masters & Learning paths are really cool (Matrix Only).
    • Mobile rocks.

    Overall, Indie / Matrix really does a great job at community and communicating. Our only hesitation from jumping on Indie/Matrix now is the less than modern feel, and somewhat awkward & clunky admin.

    #73459

    Jennypim
    Adventurer
    @Jennypim

    @bradleytmorris, you asked – Which parts of this experience are what keep you going?

    I think your weekly coaching is amazing, since I’ve joined, I’ve missed one, only because I was away with no computer. Also I started listening to some of the older ones and there’s so much wisdom and advice in them Andy is wonderful in them too. The people you find for us as guest coaches are also just so good and have such a depth of knowledge, loved Jon Block and Tad Hargrave in particular.

    I keep entering the challenges and they are great because otherwise it’s too easy to drift. So they keep me going. (I think I’m over stretched in the one I’m in though).

    I love the support from the community and they are so diverse and creative, not biz to biz, not that there’s anything wrong with biz to biz.

    I think the whole course is so creative, so much thought has gone into it, great curriculum and it’s so funny, and so well done. It really is classic. There’s nothing else out there like it. And yes the theme is so important, because if you took the theme away you wouldn’t have the characters of the locations and they help us to remember the different parts of it too, so that’s important.

    I think your mentorship is a big part, I was going so wrong with my theme ages ago and you saw it straight away. You put so much work into us all, we’re very lucky.

     

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